In 2009, I became extremely concerned with the concept of Unique Identity for various reasons. Connected with many like minded highly educated people who were all concerned.
On 18th May 2010, I started this Blog to capture anything and everything I came across on the topic. This blog with its million hits is a testament to my concerns about loss of privacy and fear of the ID being misused and possible Criminal activities it could lead to.
In 2017 the Supreme Court of India gave its verdict after one of the longest hearings on any issue. I did my bit and appealed to the Supreme Court Judges too through an On Line Petition.
In 2019 the Aadhaar Legislation has been revised and passed by the two houses of the Parliament of India making it Legal. I am no Legal Eagle so my Opinion carries no weight except with people opposed to the very concept.
In 2019, this Blog now just captures on a Daily Basis list of Articles Published on anything to do with Aadhaar as obtained from Daily Google Searches and nothing more. Cannot burn the midnight candle any longer.
"In Matters of Conscience, the Law of Majority has no place"- Mahatma Gandhi
Ram Krishnaswamy
Sydney, Australia.

Aadhaar

The UIDAI has taken two successive governments in India and the entire world for a ride. It identifies nothing. It is not unique. The entire UID data has never been verified and audited. The UID cannot be used for governance, financial databases or anything. It’s use is the biggest threat to national security since independence. – Anupam Saraph 2018

When I opposed Aadhaar in 2010 , I was called a BJP stooge. In 2016 I am still opposing Aadhaar for the same reasons and I am told I am a Congress die hard. No one wants to see why I oppose Aadhaar as it is too difficult. Plus Aadhaar is FREE so why not get one ? Ram Krishnaswamy

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.-Mahatma Gandhi

In matters of conscience, the law of the majority has no place.Mahatma Gandhi

“The invasion of privacy is of no consequence because privacy is not a fundamental right and has no meaning under Article 21. The right to privacy is not a guaranteed under the constitution, because privacy is not a fundamental right.” Article 21 of the Indian constitution refers to the right to life and liberty -Attorney General Mukul Rohatgi

“There is merit in the complaints. You are unwittingly allowing snooping, harassment and commercial exploitation. The information about an individual obtained by the UIDAI while issuing an Aadhaar card shall not be used for any other purpose, save as above, except as may be directed by a court for the purpose of criminal investigation.”-A three judge bench headed by Justice J Chelameswar said in an interim order.

Legal scholar Usha Ramanathan describes UID as an inverse of sunshine laws like the Right to Information. While the RTI makes the state transparent to the citizen, the UID does the inverse: it makes the citizen transparent to the state, she says.

Good idea gone bad
I have written earlier that UID/Aadhaar was a poorly designed, unreliable and expensive solution to the really good idea of providing national identification for over a billion Indians. My petition contends that UID in its current form violates the right to privacy of a citizen, guaranteed under Article 21 of the Constitution. This is because sensitive biometric and demographic information of citizens are with enrolment agencies, registrars and sub-registrars who have no legal liability for any misuse of this data. This petition has opened up the larger discussion on privacy rights for Indians. The current Article 21 interpretation by the Supreme Court was done decades ago, before the advent of internet and today’s technology and all the new privacy challenges that have arisen as a consequence.

Rajeev Chandrasekhar, MP Rajya Sabha

“What is Aadhaar? There is enormous confusion. That Aadhaar will identify people who are entitled for subsidy. No. Aadhaar doesn’t determine who is eligible and who isn’t,” Jairam Ramesh

But Aadhaar has been mythologised during the previous government by its creators into some technology super force that will transform governance in a miraculous manner. I even read an article recently that compared Aadhaar to some revolution and quoted a 1930s historian, Will Durant.Rajeev Chandrasekhar, Rajya Sabha MP

“I know you will say that it is not mandatory. But, it is compulsorily mandatorily voluntary,” Jairam Ramesh, Rajya Saba April 2017.

August 24, 2017: The nine-judge Constitution Bench rules that right to privacy is “intrinsic to life and liberty”and is inherently protected under the various fundamental freedoms enshrined under Part III of the Indian Constitution

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the World; indeed it's the only thing that ever has"

“Arguing that you don’t care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say.” -Edward Snowden

In the Supreme Court, Meenakshi Arora, one of the senior counsel in the case, compared it to living under a general, perpetual, nation-wide criminal warrant.

Had never thought of it that way, but living in the Aadhaar universe is like living in a prison. All of us are treated like criminals with barely any rights or recourse and gatekeepers have absolute power on you and your life.

Announcing the launch of the # BreakAadhaarChainscampaign, culminating with events in multiple cities on 12th Jan. This is the last opportunity to make your voice heard before the Supreme Court hearings start on 17th Jan 2018. In collaboration with @no2uidand@rozi_roti.

UIDAI's security seems to be founded on four time tested pillars of security idiocy

1) Denial

2) Issue fiats and point finger

3) Shoot messenger

4) Bury head in sand.

God Save India

Friday, March 27, 2015

7583 - Aadhaar: An identity crisis? - The Hindu

March 17, 2015



The debate around Aadhaar card
(Replay) 

5:00

The Hindu: 
Welcome to The Hindu's live chat on Aadhaar!


5:00

The Hindu: 
. We have with us Sunil Abraham, Executive Director of Bangalore-based research organisation, Centre for Internet and Society.

We also have K. Gopinath, Professor at the Computer Science and Automation Department at the Indian Institute of Science (IISc)

The Hindu’s Deputy Coordinating Editor 
K. Venkataramanan.


5:00

Comment From Anon 
What could have happened such that the current government, who were once in the opposition, were members of the parliamentary committee that strongly opposed UIDAI, now suddenly wants to use it everywhere? What could have transpired such that the PM got so convinced that it would help its citizens more than it could potentially harm?




Sunil Abraham: 
Usually the party that is in power is pro-surveillance and anti-censorship and the opposition is pro-privacy and pro-free speech. After the elections - if the parties swap positions as a result of the mandate - then they usually also swap positions on surveillance and censorship. This phenomenon is not specific to India.



K. Gopinath: 
The leakage in the current models is very high. Hence, the attraction. 
The issue earlier was whether there was some costs to the use of sw (esp. proprietary) from outside the country. Probably, these have been addressed.


5:01

Sunil Abraham: 
Thanks so much for having me! It is indeed a privilege.


5:03

Comment From Saurabh 
Aadhaar was supposed to be a good 2 factor authentication mechanism, what happens to it now ?




Sunil Abraham: 
Aadhaar architecture was designed to allow for multiple authentication factors. Unfortunately biometrics is a poor authentication factor since it cannot be revoked. Any two-factor authentication scheme where one factor is biometrics is in reality only a one-factor scheme. Pin code as with credit cards and debit cards would have been much more secure for authentication.



K Venkataramanan: 
It will continue to be relevant, but is unlikely to be mandatory for quite some time.



K. Gopinath: 
Real-time 2-factor auth (biometrics, signatures) are not easy, esp over Internet, and would require a much longer rollout.


5:05

Comment From Saurabh 
I did not get Aadhar for myself or my family. Does this mean, I will not have to as yet.




Sunil Abraham: 
As per the UIDAI - Aadhaar is not mandatory. Also according to the latest remarks from the Supreme Court - Aadhaar should not be made mandatory without enabling law. But many state and central government agencies have ignored the comments made by the SC and have made Aadhaar mandatory for various programmes and schemes.


5:05

The Hindu: 
Is Aadhaar virtually redundant now following the SC order? Nothing more than an expensive experiment?




K. Gopinath: 
I think it will be used as an addl auth mechanism (just like elec./ph. receipts). May be once the technology is demo'ed properly (it has not been done seriously anywhere else), it will be taken up again.


5:07

Comment From Abubacker 
I am an NRI and need to have Aadhaar Card? How to obtain Appointment - I am from Tuticorin, Tamil Nadu




K Venkataramanan: 
Your family member or representative living in Tuticorin may apply for Aadhaar through the local body. It may be possible to get a date for recording biometrics. However, you have to come down here for recording biometric details.


5:07

Comment From Aashish Gupta 
No, it is not redundant, primarily because state governments, as well as the central government are refusing to listen to the supreme court's judgement. Services for which Aadhaar was made compulsory have not been freed of Aadhaar yet.


5:07

Comment From Kishore J 
Why is Govt. not able to legalize the Aadhar, I'm assuming the only reason Supreme court keeps blocking it is because its not a law passed by Parliament ?




K. Gopinath: 
SC goes by the constitution. If there is some concern someone is being "excluded", they will block it.



Sunil Abraham: 
The NIA bill was proposed in parliament and then referred to a Standing Committee. Our summary and detailed feedback to the Bill is available here: http://cis-india.org/intern... The Standing Committee harshly criticized the Bill. See: http://164.100.47.134/lsscommittee/Finance/42%20Report.pdf After which the Bill has not been reworked by the UIDAI or the Planning Commission /Niti Aayog for re-presentation to the Parliament.


5:09

Sunil Abraham: 
No - it is not just an expensive experiment. It is much more dangerous - it is what security experts call a Honey Pot. A centralized repository of biometrics harvested from residents of India. These biometrics can be used to authenticate transactions in the UIDAI database and other services. If there is a breach - then this huge collection of authentication factors will end us in the hands of criminal elements or some foreign state.


5:09

Comment From vaz 
Aadhar is a joke, i have so many IDs and i cannot get any benefits out of it, it is simply wasting time, if Govt really want mandate make it easy for people, i pay taxes and Govt should treat me like one , i can not waste my time standing in queues to get that card, get me time slot and don't waste my time.




Sunil Abraham: 
This is because the process of registration has been outsourced to private agencies. These private agencies have futher outsourced to others and so on and so forth. Consequently, there is very poor management and quality control by these agencies. If indeed corruption was a priority - we should have tackled high-ticket corruption first. We could have had biometric registration just for only the politicians and bureaucrats. We could use biometric authentication with them to create a non-repudiable audit trail of subsidies flowing from the Centre to the Panchayat. Unfortunately, we tried to register everybody simultaneously and that has resulted in poor quality of biometrics and demographic data. We have visited some of the registration centre and have seen the reality on the ground.


5:09

Comment From Guest 
I have been threatened by Gas Agency people if i don't link Aadhar to Bank Account, won't be given a refilling cylinder.Is this a right one?




K Venkataramanan: 
There is an option for getting DBT even without Aadhaar. The bank account and the gas agency consumer account can be linked without Aadhar. Please check www.mylpg.in for knowing how to apply for DBT registration without Aadhaar


5:11

The Hindu: 
Your views Prof Gopinath? Do you see it as a biometrics Honey Pot too?




K. Gopinath: 
From a security pov, it is certainly risky. It needs really robust technologies before one can think of rolling out. For example, we have "denial of service" attacks. ie, a service can be shut out by random bombardment of msgs. Most curr large scale systems are designed to handle it but some cannot handle it if large numbers collude. This only prevents access to service but other attacks can exfiltrate (take out) data, modify data, etc.


5:12

The Hindu: 
And Mr. Venkataramanan, your thoughts?


5:13

Comment From kuldeep singh chauhan 
We need a strong law for data security. Aadhar is collecting data but there is no provision except some provisions of IT Act and IPC for data security.




K. Gopinath: 
Yes, the legislation is weak or unnecessarily vague (eg. the IT2000 act) or too broad in scope. I think what we need is a citizen's charter for data access, security and privacy. Also, what needs to be done when systems do not work!



Sunil Abraham: 
There are two interpretations of Sec. 43A of the IT Act. Acccording to most experts it only applies to Body Corporates in other words it does not apply to the Government when it plays the role of a data controller. According to an order issued by the IT Secy of Maharastra [the court of first instance for 43A of ITA] -this section will also apply to the Government. But beyond that order we have no clarity on this question.


5:13

Comment From Pavan 
With no privacy laws, isn't it a bad idea to store citizen's data in a database? We all know how inept our government is in ensuring any security/privacy.




Sunil Abraham: 
With or without laws. Centralized approaches to identity/authentication management are much more fragile and vulnerable compared to decentralized options. The Internet is secured by digital signatures - there is no centralized repository of all these signatures. Therefore there is no centralized point of failure for the Internet. If the Aadhaar project was based on Smart Cards instead of Biometrics - then just like the Internet it would be robust without a central point of failure. http://cis-india.org/intern...



K. Gopinath: 
Storing all info in a single place is a big security risk. It needs very robust technologies (such as replication and "secret sharing protocols") that work inspite of failures. These have been done here and there but doing it on a large scale requires care.


5:13

Comment From Kunal Soni 
SC Adhar card recommendations, ok Got it! But what about the banks for example SBI who ask for adhar cards stating its the bank's rule? Who's going to answer the question as they would never listen to common man and they never did.


5:14

Comment From Sandeep 
Hi,May be it is a strong message, but what exactly is the need to make/introduce the Adhaar card, which is not recognizable worldwide? Why dont we make our passport smart enough and reduce it to a chip as in Europe. This will also enable everyone to get enrolled in our administrative system. Basically, we are only repeating the entire process with no international recognition.


5:15

Comment From Krishna Rao 
Need to make it mandatory in the lines of SSN in US. Else it would be very difficult to manage and ensure the subsidies and benefits reach the really deserved section.


5:16

Comment From Ramesh 
It is a great concept it all information like property purchases, tax returns, ration card, pf, esi, bank accounts , rail, air tickets are all linked. will reduce corrupt practice considerably. It should be the main identity of an Indian


5:17

Comment From arun 
@Sunil what are the privacy safeguards that are in place currently regarding protection of information collected by the government and private agencies designated for this?




Sunil Abraham: 
Do you mean legal or technical?


5:18

K Venkataramanan: 
@The Hindu: Yes, there are serious privacy issues involved in a centralised database. However, their is a counter-view that this is no different from any other data base available in the hands of the government such as the one relating to PAN. The main concern of those worried about the privacy problem in Aadhaar is that data collection is done by private agencies, and details such as biometric data could be misused


5:18

The Hindu: 
Sunil, a question for you from arun


5:19

Comment From Pawan 
Govt should give it legal recognition and give legal guarantee about the usage and storage of the data... After that there would be no concern related to identity security or enforcing it on the people.. People would trust it and come forward to register for it.




Sunil Abraham: 
Legal recognition and guarantees are not sufficient. You cannot use the law to fix poor technology design. The security of the Internet is not a function of good law. It is a function of good technological design.


5:19

Comment From Pappan 
the so called Europe, US an other developed countries already have Social security numbers, why cant we just look at it like that?




Sunil Abraham: 
Social Security Number are an additional identifier. The database just contains a collection of identifiers. If that database is compromised the information cannot be used to authenticate transactions. This is very unlike the UIDAI centralized database which is a collection of authentication factors. Think of it as a database filled with the passwords of all Indian residents.


5:19

K Venkataramanan: 
@Kunal Soni - SBI can't insist on it as of now. The person who issued any circular to that effect may be hauled up in court


5:20

Comment From Guest 
I have two questions. First, why is the honourable supreme court strking down aadhar, on what grounds? Second, how can the government come around those objections and allay the courts fears/objections? The informed panelists may please give their opinions too. Thank you




Sunil Abraham: 
There are 3 sets of petitioners who are being heard by the SC in the combined case. Some of them associated with the right are arguing that the UID is a threat to national security as it legitimizes illegal immigrants. Those associated with the left are arguing that it is a violation of the right to privacy. Still other who are ex-officers from the armed forces are arguing that the project is mired in corrupt practices.


5:21

K Venkataramanan: 
The Court has not struck down Aadhaar. It has only passed interim orders protecting the access to services of those who have not yet had them.


5:22

Comment From Aashish Gupta 
Aadhaar was supposed to usher in portability of benefits. That is, you could migrate to a different state and still get the benefit you deserved.




Sunil Abraham: 
The Aadhaar database only contains information that identifies you and also allow you to authenticate against that database. It does not indicate eligibility for various schemes/subsidies. The migration across State level eligibility lists has to be done by the State. It is not a functionality provided by the UIDAI.


5:22

Comment From Ramesh 
Supreme Court should have suggested a better option instead of coming down heavily on the Aadhar Card. The card will straight eliminate multiple rations cards and voter ids.




Sunil Abraham: 
The previous technology adopted by the NDA government - smart cards or SCOSTA [for the MNIC]. This technology option is free from many of the flaws of UIDAI's current design.


5:22

Comment From Mrigesh 
Why is Aadhaar needed? I am for a middle class or for the elite class?


5:23

Comment From Geetha 
Has the government (or concerned agencies/departments) formulated any policy on using the Aadhar information collected? For instance, what agency can use the information, under what conditions, with whose approval, for what limited purposes? Is this policy publicly available?




Sunil Abraham: 
No. Anyone who is approved by the UIDAI as a legitimate can use the KYC API. Absolutely anyone can use the Authentication API. There is no policy on what data collection/retention practices must be adhered to by the users of both these APIs.


5:24

Comment From Arun Jayapal 
Has the government ever considered/analyzed a way to link the existing resources (such as ration card, DL, passport, voter id, etc.,) and not have come up with a completely new system (aadhaar). Is this not an absolute waste of time and resources?




Sunil Abraham: 
Yes, you are absolutely right. The government should have used biometrics as a means to dedup an existing high value database like the Electoral Rolls or more importantly the PAN Card database. That would have been better RoI for our anti-corruption Rupee.


5:24

K Venkataramanan: 
@Ramesh The Court has come down heavily on only officials who insist on Aadhar for delivery of services when there are clear orders that it should not be mandatory


5:25

Comment From George J 
I'm an NRI. I presently work and live in a country where the first order of business on landing/Birth is to register one self and get a unique ID number and ID. This the case for expats as well as residents be they foreigners or Citizens. The registration process includes collection of Biometric data. This single No and Id is used for everything from Bank Accounts to School Admissions. It is good that India is doing something similar. It is high time people with multiple ration cards, Passports and the like are weeded out and provided a single verifiable identity. Data Security is of essence and necessary safeguards are available.




Sunil Abraham: 
Could you name the country? And can you use biometrics your country to authenticate transactions in a centralized database for all sorts of transactions? If yes, then the technology design in your country is as poor as in ours and it is only a question of time when the centralized database leaks.


5:25

Comment From Aashish Gupta 
Apart from the Honey Pot, Aadhaar does not serve its primary purpose: tackling corruption. Most pilots of Aadhaar have crash landed, and as a result, state governments have created their own simpler systems to tackle corruption.




Sunil Abraham: 
See: http://www.thehindu.com/opi... If the authentication match is not working [1:1 match]. Then basically the dedup will not work [1:n] match. That is why they are doing demographic dedup before biometric dedup - because they know that the biometric dedup is fallible.


5:26

Comment From Balu 
A citizenship card , backed with a strond database is a must for every citixen . Some serious thoughts should be done in this matter at the earliest , instead of wasting time and money on different schemes .




Sunil Abraham: 
We should use decentralized Internet scale technologies based on open standards that are already proven. If we had used smart cards based on SCOSTA or EMV standard we would be in a much better place.


5:26

Comment From PRASHANTH 
Has the government (or concerned agencies/departments) formulated any policy on using the Aadhar information collected? For instance, what agency can use the information, under what conditions, with whose approval, for what limited purposes? Is this policy publicly available?


5:27

Comment From vikash 
supreme court should not have to push such legal hurdles given that the 750 million card has already been generated.A lot of money has been investad in the project


5:28

Comment From Saket 
Aaadhar card is full of errors. At the place where I got registered person was issuing it in a hurry which creates lots of typing errors in DOB and Place.


5:28

Comment From Aashish Gupta 
The supreme court has not struck down aadhaar, it has said that aadhaar cannot be mandatory. This is to make sure that people who do not have an aadhaar card do not miss out on their entitlements.


5:29

Comment From Ramesh 
Aadhaar should be made mandatory with necessary safeguards. Unless there is an ultimatum and time frame to get the card it will never be implemented. Even now many do not know where to get it done.


5:32

Comment From Aadharam 
Could you clarify whether this is an interim order or a final order on Aadhar? Is there scope for a retraction/shift on the Supreme Court's part?


5:32

Comment From Onkar Tiwari 
Why supreme court doesnt understand Adhar is necessary? it can curb corruption. it wll reduce corruption specially in manrega where people enters fake details and grab the money.


5:32

K Venkataramanan: 
It is only an interim order. The Court will, hopefully, resolve the questions raised by the petitioners about privacy and data security issues


5:33

Comment From George J 
I have taken Aadhar Card. The procedure asks the applicant themselves to verify the data entered for typing mistakes etc. before being uploaded, in fact where I registered they had asked for a sign off on the final data on a printout. So how errors can creep in is beyond me. However the photography equipment and skill of the data entry operator leave much to be desired as the mug shot is not very kind to me!


5:33

Comment From Guest 
There should be a guide line which need to be followed as it is in the hands of private partners who are also ask for bribe from the poor people for the aadhar and they have no other option to pay for it as they thought that this only can help them to get the govt. facilities and subsidies.


5:34

K Venkataramanan: 
@Onkar Tiwari, It is up to the government to convince the court that Aadhaar will help curb corruption, and how. The Court is unlikely to stop the use of technology to improve delivery of services and curb corruption.


5:35

Comment From v subrahmanian 
help line over phone and the email correspondence is total waste.. they themselves are helpless. Any query has never been replied to the caller's satisfaction. Getting them on line itself is a challenge. It's so complex. Of course, every eligible citizen of this complex country must have the identity card. Why not if it is done through employer in case of organized salaried employees?


5:35

Comment From Ramakrishna Rao 
Hi !! I request the panelists to kindly sum up in few 4 or 5 points the reasons/grounds on which the parliamentary committee has rejected the aadhar


5:35

Comment From Guest 
The agencies who are collecting data for Aadhar Card are not doing good. The aadhar card is full with many kind of errors including Name and DOB.. Even a person is able to register twice under this scheme.


5:36

The Hindu: 
Mr. Venkataramanan would you like to respond to Ramakrishna Rao?


5:40

Comment From Guest 
@K Gopinath - how robust is the de-duplication UID claims to have. And in real time transactions, is it possible to authenticate n request without 'false positives' or 'negatives'?




K. Gopinath: 
Dedup claims assume “good” conditions. For example, a farmhand may have rough skin, etc that may make the fingerprints problematic. 1% errors have been reported in the past. Real time txns: I think the current Aadhar is not geared for it. The connectivity is not there. Also, with fingerprint technologies, the ability to check large number of fingerprints for a match is not good enough. It has never been scaled to the extent that is being planned.


5:42

Comment From Sandeep 
Still not sure if Aadhaar then other ID cards not needed ? Or Still all along with Aadhaar ? then what is meaning of Aadhaar ? Only for LPG connection? Why not govt making Aadhaar is mandatory in all other fields as well , As Govt spent huge money for Aadhaar


5:42

Comment From Guest 
@ Sunil - How plausible is the idea that govt can use UID data to profile public?


5:42

Comment From Sushubh 
I for one is very happy that at least the Supreme Court is not falling for this privacy infringing scam. People defending this card here on this platform needs to read more about it.


5:42

Comment From Guest 
Govt. created panic among public regarding adhaar. Public is highly annoyed with the way the government is handling this adhaar project. Only court reprimands,govt. backtracks as far as the adhaar is concerned. It is high time for govt. to have serious insight into this.


5:44

K Venkataramanan: 
The parliamentary committee on Finance had objected to the UID being extended to non-citizens on the ground that it may end up in illegal immigrants getting Aadhaar numbers.
It had also questioned the rollout ofthe scheme before legislation was passed. It had objected to its implementation without regard to its consequences.


5:45

Comment From Srinivasa 
I believe Nandan Nilkeni had mentioned certain very good examples of the system flagging duplicates. So I assume the system is robust. We need to make it mandatory for all services delivery and have suitable policy and technology to protect data.




Sunil Abraham: 
I don't think we can go by the assurance of someone no longer associated with the project. It is not persons that keep us safe it is proper technology and law.


5:46

The Hindu: 
Welcome back Sunil! Lots of questions await you.


5:47

K Venkataramanan: 
The committee had said UIDAI had no conceptual clarity, no proper assessment of the costs involved, and that it could end up in the hands of private agencies, that the technology was untested and the UID may not meet the objectives for which it was conceived


5:47

Sunil Abraham: 
Sorry I was logged out.


5:47

Comment From Guest 
There was a recent news in The Hindu about linking of Adhar cards to election voter ID cards in Andhra Pradesh. Do you think that adopting such moves by every state result in mandating the procedure eventually?


5:48

Comment From Guest 
First Passport then PAN , voter id and now adahar, in any country there is only passport and SSN, why india needs so many identity cards




K. Gopinath: 
The PAN database has been problematic just as the voter id. Hence, every technology cycle, a new system is usually attempted that attempts to be "better" than the before. However, this requires care which is not in good supply in the govt where the "lowest" bidder wins or outsourcing happens.


5:48

The Hindu: 
We have Prof Gopinatha back too. Sorry about that technical glitch.


5:48

Comment From Deepak Vasudevan 
Why are different apex agencies managing Aadhar like UIDAI, Census and NPR? There should be one root (apex) body and others should report onto it.




Sunil Abraham: 
Yes. The division of work between UIDAI and NPR is not very clear and has added to the confusion.



K Venkataramanan: 
The parliamentary standing committee, too pointed out the overlap of functions involving UIDAI and NPR


5:49

The Hindu: 
There was this question for you earlier on the thread @K Gopinath - how robust is the de-duplication UID claims to have. And in real time transactions, is it possible to authenticate n request without 'false positives' or 'negatives'?




K. Gopinath: 
Dedup claims assume “good” conditions. For example, a farmhand may have rough skin, etc that may make the fingerprints problematic. 1% errors have been reported in the past. Real time txns: I think the current Aadhar is not geared for it. The connectivity is not there. Also, with fingerprint technologies, the ability to check large number of fingerprints for a match is not good enough. It has never been scaled to the extent that is being planned.


5:49

Comment From Guest 
When Union Of India aimed to greater transparency... these are the road blocks they get... If Aadhar is not mandatory... then make Voter ID, PAN Card, Ration card also not mandatory in their respective Govt Businesses ... make self declaration as mandatory .. lets go to the stone age in this Information age. Instead SC should direct the center to come up with procedure to accommodate legitimate citizens of India into the scheme in a time bound manner and frame policies to avoid misuse of the personal data. are we looking the current world Information age thru the same old glasses... it is time to adopt the change...




Sunil Abraham: 
Indeed we need more transparency. But privacy protections must be inversely proportionate to power and as Julian Assange says transparency requirements should be directly proportionate to power See: http://openup2014.org/priva...


5:50

K Venkataramanan: 
Linking Aadhaar and voter ID cards is also being tried out in other states It is only one more means of eliminating fake voters or duplicates, but is unlikely tobe a ground to make Aadhaar mandatory


5:50

Comment From Ganesh 
@Mr.Sunil, The current technology adopted for UIDAI is not good compared to last regime?




Sunil Abraham: 
Please see my our open letter on this question http://cis-india.org/intern...


5:50

Comment From Madhavan R 
Just because UPA government bring this, its not good for NDA to object it.. STOP wasting our money.. Just try to make best out of it..




Sunil Abraham: 
Pouring more money into a failed project will not save it. It has serious technological flaw and without addressing it we are just making a bad situation worse.



K. Gopinath: 
May be it should be directed in specific ways and in simpler contexts and ensure that it delivers as promised. Then, it could be rolled out in other contexts.


5:51

Comment From George J 
Currently all embassy's are collecting biometric data when you apply for a visa. Most of this collection is done by private parties on behalf of the respective governments. So if an Indian has travelled abroad the chances of his Biometric data being available to foreign govts is 99%. So what is the big scare about this? The need that it should be secure and should not be misused is sacrosanct. with the kind of revelations that have been made about mass eavesdropping I think people should get used to living in glass houses!


5:52

Comment From Pappan 
@Sunil, please clarify about your comment on technology inadequecy


5:52

Comment From Yuvaraj 
I strongly support Adhaar card implemenataion. intially they may face challeneges but for the long run its very effective mechanism to monitor every thing




Sunil Abraham: 
Monitoring everything means you monitor nothing. The bigger the haystack the harder it is to find the needle. Good surveillance practices means targetting survelliance not en masse data collection.


5:53

Comment From Guest 
It is heard that privacy of citizens is at stake with adhaar card. can panelists respond to this?




Sunil Abraham: 
I have dealt with your question here: http://www.business-standar...


5:54

Comment From Srinivasa 
That comparison of the two standards (SCOSTA and Aadhar) made interesting reading. Why not a system where you collect biometrics and iris and then issue a SCOSTA card? the biometrics and iris can be used to remove duplicates and maintain a clean registry by failing the duplicate SCOSTA cards. And all further transactions will only need a card based access.




K. Gopinath: 
I think the original promise of aadhar is realtime auth. with biometrics. This seems to be very problematic. As you say, one could have tried a simpler non-realtime card based mechanism first with biometrics only in the critical aspects.


5:54

Comment From Loganathan 
This is one the worst move by any government in the center to remember. With no motive for the card, they introduced just to add to the loss in exchequer and there is no benefit out of it. Many have wrong data entered against their name and totally the waste one of all


5:55

Comment From Sabari Arasu 
I am aware of someone who is not Indian citizen got Aadhar card for himself and his family. This scares me a lot as anyone(read Bangaladheshis, Sri Lankans, Pakintanis, etc..) can get Aadhar card. Is there a measure taken by Government to identify these issues?




Sunil Abraham: 
This is possible because the technology [biometrics] cannot verify citizenship. Even worse biometrics can be imported from foreign countries and can be used to create resident ghosts. This is because the technology cannot even verify if the person in India. We will need surveillance cameras at every point of registration to take care of this possible fraud.


5:55

Comment From Chandra Sekhar 
Aadhaar card was a huge opportunity for the government to improve the efficiency of governance.It was a challenging task and required great amount accuracy.The way this project was executed is a question mark on efficiency of governance.


5:56

The Hindu: 
Sunil, Venkatramanan, Gopinath - would you agree that Aadhaar was an opportunity to improve governance? @chandra sekhar




K Venkataramanan: 
Yes, indeed, but whether it is the only means to improve governance is a moot question


5:57

Comment From Guest 
Freebee lovers/netas will always oppose when you want to implement some thing which might deny them the benefit.




Sunil Abraham: 
Any evidence to backup this statement?


5:58

Comment From Guest 
if the ASDHAAR is nt necessary as per SC then why everywhere it is being preferred identity such as Subsidy, Passport etc.




Sunil Abraham: 
Preference is not the same as a mandatory requirement.


5:59

Comment From Paul Mathew 
My wife applied for an Aadhaar card in 2014. Since it did not arrive by the expected time, she approached Akshaya, the Kerala agency which handles the job. They asked her to apply again. She did that. Early this year she went there again because the card was yet to arrive. They asked her to apply for a third time. Now they are denying the card because it has been duplicated. How to recover the card. She does not have the registration number of the first application or the second one. When we feed the third one on UIDAI site it says rejected because it has been duplicated.




Sunil Abraham: 
Sorry to hear of your experience. Please see: http://www.moneylife.in/art... - You can imagine what the situation is for the poor.


6:01

The Hindu: 
Panelists and guests, we have to end it here. Many thanks for joining us on this chat and making it a lively, informative one!




Sunil Abraham: 
Thanks so much for having us.


6:01

Comment From thomas wilson 
HAs the integration with the NPR gone well? There was a parallel program run by MHA with an NIC built application for another unique number. I believe there was some agreement on the rollout. That monster sleeps to wake up another day perhaps.




Sunil Abraham: 
There is no real integration. As of now it is just a division of labour in terms of enrollment responsibilty. The total number of states have been divided up between UIDAI and the NPR.


6:02

Comment From SK Mahadevan 
My dad enrolled for aadhaar but thatt enrollment was cancelled due to some data/process error later he tried to re-enroll but all the later enrollments were rejected on the ground that they were duplicate enrollments and the first one which was rejected due to some error was valid. Now none of the enrollments stand valid and no authority is answering for this.




Sunil Abraham: 
Apparently the dedup engine is not working so we can be sure that many similar issues will crop up in the future. http://www.moneylife.in/art...


6:11

The Hindu: 
Thank you for your overwhelming response to this discussion on Aadhaar!


6:13

The Hindu: 
Hopefully we were able to answer all your questions!


6:14

The Hindu: 
Please do keep posting your queries to @the_hindu!


6:15










 Writer: The Hindu


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Welcome to The Hindu's live chat on Aadhaar!
We have with us Sunil Abraham, Executive Director of Bangalore-based research organisation, Centre for Internet and Society.
We also have K. Gopinath, Professor at the Computer Science and Automation Department at the Indian Institute of Science (IISc)
The Hindu’s Deputy Coordinating Editor K. Venkataramanan.
Comment From Anon
What could have happened such that the current government, who were once in the opposition, were members of the parliamentary committee that strongly opposed UIDAI, now suddenly wants to use it everywhere? What could have transpired such that the PM got so convinced that it would help its citizens more than it could potentially harm?
Sunil Abraham: Usually the party that is in power is pro-surveillance and anti-censorship and the opposition is pro-privacy and pro-free speech. After the elections - if the parties swap positions as a result of the mandate - then they usually also swap positions on surveillance and censorship. This phenomenon is not specific to India.
K. Gopinath: The leakage in the current models is very high. Hence, the attraction.
The issue earlier was whether there was some costs to the use of sw (esp. proprietary) from outside the country. Probably, these have been addressed.
Comment From Saurabh
Aadhaar was supposed to be a good 2 factor authentication mechanism, what happens to it now ?
Sunil Abraham: Aadhaar architecture was designed to allow for multiple authentication factors. Unfortunately biometrics is a poor authentication factor since it cannot be revoked. Any two-factor authentication scheme where one factor is biometrics is in reality only a one-factor scheme. Pin code as with credit cards and debit cards would have been much more secure for authentication.
K Venkataramanan: It will continue to be relevant, but is unlikely to be mandatory for quite some time.
K. Gopinath: Real-time 2-factor auth (biometrics, signatures) are not easy, esp over Internet, and would require a much longer rollout
Comment From Saurabh
I did not get Aadhar for myself or my family. Does this mean, I will not have to as yet.
Sunil Abraham: As per the UIDAI - Aadhaar is not mandatory. Also according to the latest remarks from the Supreme Court - Aadhaar should not be made mandatory without enabling law. But many state and central government agencies have ignored the comments made by the SC and have made Aadhaar mandatory for various programmes and schemes.
The Hindu: Is Aadhaar virtually redundant now following the SC order? Nothing more than an expensive experiment?
K. Gopinath: I think it will be used as an addl auth mechanism (just like elec./ph. receipts). May be once the technology is demo'ed properly (it has not been done seriously anywhere else), it will be taken up again.
Comment From Abubacker
I am an NRI and need to have Aadhaar Card? How to obtain Appointmet - I am from Tuticorin, Tamil Nadu

K Venkataramanan: Your family member or representative living in Tuticorin may apply for Aadhaar through the local body. It may be possible to get a date for recording biometrics. However, you have to come down here for recording biometric details.